UPDATE: after many comments, let me be clear that i have nothing against systemd at a technical level. It indeed solves issues that people had and found it’s way in most mainstream distros for good reasons, beside being pushed by Redhat and Debian, which makes for basically every other mainstream distro out there without much choice. I never used it long enough to judge it, and i dont intend to judge it from a technical point of view. I am worried that such a centra piece of technology deeply interwined with linux is under direct control of IBM and Microsoft (who is the employer of the systemd lead). This might mean nothing, or this could be important for the long time future of linux freedom.
I have recently been exposed to a lot of stuff against systemd.
I know its an old debate that has inflamed people for a long time, I am not looking into restarting it as I never took a stance into it in the past anyway.
I am myself a almost 30+ years power user of Linux and I have never used systemd much myself since it never fixed any issues I had with the previous approaches, and since I am a good user of Gentoo, always loved the freedom to just keep using OpenRC and din’t ever bother with systemd.
I like the Unix approach and at the same time, if it is not broken don’t fix it, is my basic idea. So my approach to systemd has been not of dislike, rather of I don’t care, I don’t need it. And I never needed it anyway.
After reading trough most of the links below I start to think that maybe my stance could be more than simple technical.
What are other lemmy-ers idea on all this?
I didn’t knew about Microsoft taking over the Linux Foundation either, and I am getting concerned about the real freedom behind my beloved Linux.
TLDR: I don’t dislike systemd, I never cared about systemd. Do I need to start caring now due to all this non technical issues?
Note: i a copying verbatim the following article to stress that these are not my personal opinions and that i didnt do a proper research on the topic, except reading (most) of the links below.
(The following is a post on the #libreware telegram channel on the 7th/8th of February 2025)
Lennart Poettering intends to replace “sudo” with #systemd’s run0. Here’s a quick PoC to demonstrate root permission hijacking by exploiting the fact “systemd-run” (the basis of uid0/run0, the sudo replacer) creates a user owned pty for communication with the new “root” process.
This isn’t the only bug of course, it’s not possible on Linux to read the environment of a root owned process but as systemd creates a service in the system slice, you can query D-BUS and learn sensitive information passed to the process env, such as API keys or other secrets.
https://fixupx.com/hackerfantastic/status/1785495587514638559
Nitter mirror: https://xcancel.com/hackerfantastic/status/1785495587514638559
Here are some links about #systemd #alternatives for #Linux in no particular order. Which are your favorite alternatives and distros?
https://suckless.org/sucks/systemd/
https://unixsheikh.com/articles/the-real-motivation-behind-systemd.html
https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/
https://skarnet.org/software/systemd.html
https://the-world-after-systemd.ungleich.ch/
https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=120652
https://www.devuan.org/os/announce/
https://www.devuan.org/os/init-freedom
https://thehackernews.com/2019/01/linux-systemd-exploit.html
https://judecnelson.blogspot.com/2014/09/systemd-biggest-fallacies.html
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2016/05/18/systemd-it-keeps-getting-worse/
https://systemd-free.artixlinux.org/why.php
Some more added here too: https://start.me/p/Kg8keE/priv-sec
#systemd #Linux
Why do you feel a need to form an opinion on this based on what others think?
Exchange of opinions is a great way to learn and broaden your views.
In that case why not share your opinion?
Instead you’ve claimed you’re neutral and shared links to the views of 15 other people.
You haven’t even provided any context on these articles. Or quoted anything from them that you are concerned about.
Everything about this screams you’re asking in bad faith just hoping to waste people’s time or start an argument.
And yes you exactly waste people time :)
Jokes apart, well i think that having a core component so much linked to IBM and Microsoft is a potential danger to Linux itself. What if it was the kernel to be in the hands of Google and Microsoft? Where would Linux as we know it be going to?
This is concerning, i think. I thought it was clear from the first post. I dont want to share an opinion on how good or bad systemd is from a technical point of view, because i do not have such an opinion because i use OpenRC and never used systemd long enough to judge it from a tech pov
I’ve read the update you made to your original post.
So I now understand your concern is Microsoft control systemd and the proof of that is that the project lead works for Microsoft? Is that the only proof?
I think it’s quite a grasp. There is no money in open source so the developers need jobs. In this case the developer happens to be employed by Microsoft.
Yes, i hope your view is correct. Indeed he can work for whatever company he likes, but i would see that as a conflict of interest of some kind. Remember also that when you sign up with big tech companies its common that you sell them the intellectual property of all your works, even outside work hours, specially if in the sale related field. Maybe it’s not his case, i have no idea.
I was concerned. Maybe i still am a bit. But the fact that systemd can always be forked (or ignored, as that is still possible today) its a comfortable thought.